Guest

View Thread

 Print Thread
Hyperspacial Weapons
xealmox
okay im new to this forum so first things first

Helo

okay i got this crazed idea for the progenitor ships butt dunno if its possible

a missile ship wich hyperspaces the missiles right infront of the target

butt how to do this i ask

my dad and i have tried many things:hidesSadcan't show the code coss im abroad now)like making the missiles ships and stuff but all kinds of weird stuff happened:cheeseSadgoing to add pictures in a while when im back)

if anyone could help thank you in advance
 
Elukka
The smallest ships that can hyperspace in PDS (wake jumping near a module) are rather large corvettes.

A missile of that size would be very unwieldy and very easy to shoot down. That, and hyperspace inhibitors are everywhere.
 
xealmox
what if i could make a ship wich does fire missiles of that size but when fired they first get thrown to their coordinates by some sort of HS launcher(or have one of their own)(wich would be rather expensive) and then deploy smaller missiles in large groups
 
Elukka
I don't know much about the technical side.
I just ramble. Smile
 
Twitch
i'm sure that something like this has come up before (see the "Mothballed" section and General Discussion), let's see what tel and the rest of the PDS vets have to say about it...
YAY!!!! 1000th MEMBER!!!
 
TelQuessir
Easy to do - make a missile first stage that starts off boosting towards the target, safe distance from launcher and poof, transitions with a flash to terminal attack range of it's third stage warhead.

For balancing, the warhead would be able to get hit by point defenses but the chance of interception would be fifty-fifty due to the negligible time to target.

Main guns of the Majiirian should have these - normal ballistic rounds would be quite worthless in a deep space battle after all, and the concept of having a self-propelled attack munition works brilliantly as you can see.

The tie-breaker of standoff situations.
Returned to active duty 021108
 
Twitch
so is this idea this going to be in v12? and didn't the majirian have these in v11, or was that another type of missile?
YAY!!!! 1000th MEMBER!!!
 
Mostly harmless
It seems in the homeworld universe to be very easy to track things in hyperspace especially entering hyperspace. Not so stealthy and inhibitors would impotise them.
 
CIWS2000
a more tactically believable application in my opinion is a missile fitted with a very short duration hyperspace drive, like on the order of a millisecond or even a nanosecond that allows the missile to enter hyperspace and then materialize back into normal space a short distance later, say on the order of a few hundred meters...the missile begins its terminal run then just as point defense weapons begin to get a firing solution, it enters hyperspace and then penetrates a ships armor belt and detonates inside the hull, thus bypassing most if not all of the ships armor and defensive systems.
this solves the problems of credibility , a short duration hyperspace entry should require less energy to form than a full scale hyperspace event. such a hyperspace drive need not be overly large or overly power intensive. i believe it was stated in homeworld canon that a ship required no less than 3 industrial grade fusion plants to hyper independently of the mothership., but you should be able to do it for a billionth of a second or so with a much smaller and less efficient drive.
 
TelQuessir
That's interesting. Much like a sensor fuzed weapon of today.
Returned to active duty 021108
 
Komo val
I love discussing these hi-tech exotic weapons.

First of rather then the warhead itself having a hyperspace generator it will be more cheap, easy and practical just to have a missile that can be pulled into hyperspace by the ship itself. So just make the missile capable of entering quantum windows and leave the quantum window opening to the capital ships.

As harmless pointed out, it's quite easy to track short range hyper jumps in the hw universe, and inhibitors negate the use of hyperspace, however we don't know how these will affect the millisecond jumps of small objects. The quantum wave dispersion that's used to track ships in hyperspace would be extremely small for an object of such a small mass plus the short time spent in hyperspace would most probably negate any detection by the enemy. The inhibitors are another story. To begin with we don't even know how they work, but that's for another discussion.

*runs off to make a new thread*
Edited by Komo val on 04-07-2008 11:28
 
CIWS2000
cheap , easy , and practical does not always equal effective in a weapon system.
in my opinion the whole idea of ships being able to enter hyperspace because of some other ship opening the window for them is a little hard to believe. if it were so, then any ship or any object would be able to do so, probes, fighters, asteroids, the enemies ordnance, etc.....
this creates a nearly impossible situation where a ship could simply send everything thrown against it into limbo, while at the same time sending units to and fro all over the battlefield
and this doesnt even address the power requirements for such a system.
where would all the power needed to open hyperspace windows be coming from? and what sort of condition is it going to leave the parent ship in? unable to defend itself from using all its reactors output to send missiles into hyperspace?
lets face it, if a ship had that kind of power output it could be used better... faster engines, faster re- fire rate on its energy weapons, or more powerful output on the same weapons, etc
no i'm afraid smaller, not so efficient hyperspace drives would be more robust and practical on a battlefield, especially given the tendency of the vaygr to deploy similar units on their hyperspace platforms.
you rely on a capitol ship to deploy your hyperspace missiles, then you simply have to take out its hyperspace module to negate that advantage.
small units mounted on the missiles themselves would do better, be harder to stop, and almost impossible to track with hyperspace sensors..the event is simply of too short a duration and not being generated until it is too late to do anything about it, by the time you detect it, it has already penetrated your ships hull and exploded

all this is probably just academic at any rate. i imagine it would be very difficult to implement such a weapon given the limitations of the homeworld engine, or at least so difficult as to not be very practical or worthwhile. as in real life, any advanced weapon system is only effective for so long, sooner or later someone will devise a means of nullifying any advantage

also as a add in...any stargate fans should visit www.surfthechannel.com and look under the movie section...the latest offering in this franchises movies is there, and is pretty good quality, i might add this movie isnt scheduled to be aired until this fall sometime. it is titled stargate continuim.....and it is pretty good...even ole Apophis and the rest of the killed off system lords make a visit, although briefly
Edited by CIWS2000 on 04-07-2008 19:19
 
Komo val
First of the ship entering hyperspace must be able to exit it and sustain ''flight'' in it as well. Thus sending a friendly ship into hyperspace that does not poses proper equipment is suicide at best. Second the sheer volume of enemy ordinance thrown at you would make it impossible to swallow them all into hyperspace, not to mention the massive energy requirements. That said you mentioned the missiles performing micro-jumps as to safe energy. The ship opening these micro-jump windows would also save energy as it wouldn't have to generate a sustain hyperspace wake, plus these missiles would be far too expensive for swarming and would most probably be rarely used against high-value objectives. Having even a small hyperspace generator aboard would make them the size of corvettes or larger (the khopesh I think is the smallest ship that can perform hyper-jumps and even then only when in range of a hyper module) which is unpractical at best. The hyperspace platform's hyperdrive should not by mixed with normal ones as it only provides half the power to make a proper jump (as you need two connected platforms - assuming that one actually opens the hyper window and the other opens the exit that would still mean that a missile with only exit capabilities, with the cap ship providing hyperspace window opening would still need to be at least as big as the hyperspace gate).

To conclude the cheapest, easiest and most effective way to deliver precision or high yield missiles is to simply deploy them en mass behind a swarm of decoys, jammers and small, low-yield missile.

And as CIWS said it's all academic since I don't know any way to implement the said into the HW engine.
 
xealmox
heey guys look up on the bentus its history and you'll see that pulling ships away from somewhere else is possible(although you need a HS core for it) because the bentus pulled its fleet out of a neigbouring system deploy a systemwide HS inhibitor field and than still had enough power left to fight

ill probably putt the bits of code we tried in a message sometime next week(im not home right now) and post a Youtube vid of its crazy outcomes
 
aspasticninja
Another problem is gravity. According to the HW1 historic/technical briefing, the original Mothership's hyperspace core was designed to drop out when encountering any large gravitational forces, such as a planet, because gravity wells would screw with navigation. Now, a ship isn't as big as a planet, but nor is a missile as big as a ship. Assuming such things work proportionally, a large ship or group of ships would probably make a large enough gravity well to make a hyperspacial missile impossible to aim. And of course there's the problem of inhibitors.
Ford, I don't mean to alarm you, but there are an infinite number of monkey's outside and they want us to go over their screenplay for Hamlet.
 
xealmox
Perhaps the most drastic example of Bentusi military doctrine can be seen in the depiction of the historical standoff between Hiigaran and Bentusi forces. The Bentus, after having taken minor fire from Hiigaran ships, activated its far-jumper, wrenching the Bentusi fleet from nearby staging grounds. As the fight went on, the Bentus made use of its far-jumper to make tactical jumps to support forces around the battlefield. The Hiigarans also utilized a far-jumper, but their inexperience, and the sheer technological superiority of the Bentusi one-to-one, led to their defeat.

got this as a example of what can be done with hyperspace

well im going for a more Vagr like aproach now

im trying to see how a HS gate could be used
 
Naismith
Preamble: XRay Laser
In 1983, Reagan began the Strategic Defense Initiative. He didn't reference specific weapons which he planned to have implemented, but the one that was on his mind at the time was the nuclear pumped xray laser. [1]
Up until Edward Teller whispered his idea into Reagan's ear, laser weapons had been a disappointment. The power necessary to pump a laser was ludicrously out of reach for any directed energy weapon application, let alone one which could be operated on a sattelite's meager ration of solar/battery power. When Edward Teller proposed this, he essentially took the two scariest things he could think of and put them together to make something even scarier. [2]
The laser only fires once. A nuclear warhead strapped to the back of it detonates and provides the necessary optical pumping. Imagine an orbiting bomb which blows up in /almost/ perfect spherical symmetry, with one narrow, intense lance of xray coming out the Earth side.
Unfortunately, the program failed utterly. [3] The first nuclear test gave no results whatsoever. (Apart from a large hole in the ground, but that's standard when you're dealing in nukes.)

[1] A book which covers the subject:
J. Hecht, "The History of the X-ray Laser," Optics & Photonics News 19, 26-33 (2008)
[2] A link to a 1983 NY times article on the X ray laser:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9D06E0DD1239F936A25752C1A965948260
[3] A link to a catalog of nuclear tests from 1945 to 1992:
http://www.nv.doe.gov/library/publications/historical/DOENV_209_REV15.pdf

My proposal for a hyperspacial weapon follows a similar design principle:
Strap a positronium warhead to a really cheap hyperspace module. When the warhead explodes, it energizes the module enough for a jump. The exploding warhead gets (partly) carried through. It's a bomb that explodes in two places at once.
Imagine a unit you deploy like a probe; just enough engines and nav circuitry to pilot it to one location and park it pointing the right way. Then, once you choose a target and remove intervening hyperspace inhibiters, it explodes where you parked it and where you aimed it.
I think it would add an interesting need for scouting. The bomb is after all a bomb, so whoever used it wouldn't want to guard it too carefully and certainly wouldn't want it anywhere near their base or any of their fleets. The bombs would be fragile, volatile, so even a tiny rat-pack of scouts could take it out if they could find it. It doesn't need any support either; since it has hyperspace capability it could, say, take out a destroyer from across the map. It'd be expensive, regardless of how low-end you made the hyperspace module so you wouldn't have a lot of them. But one or two could really help in a pinch; they'd be a tactical wild-card. If an enemy fleet hyperspaces in, they perforce must land in a hyperspace-able volume, so they'd be vulnerable to fire from hyperspace bombs unless they brought grav-wells or something with them.
And best of all, I think this idea would be a cinch to implement. What say ya'll?
 
Admiral666
Oh sweet, a smart person! Hell yes.

Also. Headache. Will find some useful reply to that later.
"With all this power at its disposal,there is no question that the Beast Mothership is currently the most dangerous vessel in the Galaxy.It is not just a starship. It is a plague come for us all."-Somtaaw Fleet Intelligence.

"We are the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile."
 
FinalSeraphim
Depth.... Or... HyperDepth charges! mwehahaha...
I am the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last... the beginning and your end.
 
B0nes
Sorry for being away for so long!

And: Yea, Naismith, that'd be really cool! Perhaps we could also make the hyperspace bombs have different effects dependant on what its aiming at.
For instance, Vs Fighters youd want a spread burst of small but explosive rounds capable of covering a larger area and therefore taking out the small and weaker units....while Vs a Destroyer you would probably want a solid slug of Anti Armor weaponry with a large explosion.

The only problem with this could be spammage. You say these bombs would be expensive and yet, how expensive? In some games i've had so much resources I could hyperspace my whole fleet! ( Including certain fighters which costs alot! )

Lastly, you said it would be much like a probe, in that it would have a one shot movement. However, wouldnt aiming it also require gas (or w/e they use ) making the probe NOT a one shot movement weapon? That could lead to complicating programming i would assume. But i have no expierence in programming so it matters little.

But cool Grin:

Now im done. :zipit: :ale:
May the PDS be with you.
 
Jump to Forum: