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4G DFG/LDS defense systems
mrWHO
This is lower priority topis as both system were introduced at 4G (so they are V1.0 irrelevant).


However I wonder if later one we could adjust HW:R logic comparing to HW2:Classic.


Both techs were the main factor that distinqushed what was considered outdated 3G and what was new 4G tech - basically ships that could field DFG or LDS systems were first of new 4G (the second 4G tech were hyper velocity missiles/rockets/torpedos).



OK first things first:

DFG - Defence field generator - Higgaran passive defence system based on discontinued defense field frigate. Instead dedicating entire ship to cast large, but weak defence field, higg engneers mannaged to downscale generators to fit and envelop a signle ship. The 4G generators were automatic, but at late 3G there were prototypes (I think it was Prince of Higgara and Defiance) that used Defense field frigate logic (you had to trigger the field manually).
The field was capable of stopping missiles and energy projectiles, but Beams and kinetic weapons go through it without decrease of performance

LDS - Laser/Lance defense system - Vaygr response to higg wider deployment of DFG technology. Unlike Higg this is an active defence system and basically consist of numerous micro (you don't see them ingame, only the effects of their joCool defense lasers/lances all over the ship that destroy incoming fire. Similar to DFG it's capable of destroying missiles and ditrubting energy projectiles, but cannot stop beams and kinetic weapons.

How it worked n HW2:Classic
Due to engine limitation it was heavy modification of DFG frigate script. The difrrence with vanilla sript was that when the ship was fired upon the fields (LDS in Classic was technically-speaking identical to Defence field but it had diffrent "hit-effect" than DFG) were auto-activated.
The field that collapse after X-amount of time (like vanilla script) or collapse due to overload from incoming fire (I tink it was modded to vanilla script).

The problem in Classic was that you could never estimate how well these fields were holding. it's bar was decreasing with the time of use but if you hit the "overload limit" it insantly went from the value to 0.



So after this long introduction here are my questions:
- is HW:R capable of accurate measure of the DFG/LDS capability? E.g. let say that Higg DFG on Arbiter is capable of withstand 10 fussion missiles. If through it PDS one missile get and detonate on DFG the DFG bar should goes to 90%. Then next fussion missile hit and the bar goes to 80%. That way we could more or less estimate how well the ship field is holding (diffrent ships would have diffrent DFG/LDS capability, bigger ad moe advance ship would have better systems).

- the second ide and more complex - would it be possible to further differentiate between Higg DFG and Vaygr LDS? My Idea would be something like this:

Higgaran DFG - pasive defense, this means that the power is drain every time the object (missile or energy projective) is stopped by the field. This means that Higgaran DFG is very payload-sensitive - literally the more dammage weapon does the more stress is put to the field generator and the field collapse faster. The simples example would be that the same generator would be capable of stoping a few dozens fighter-o-fighter missiles, but only a few capship fusion missiles. From Vaygr point of view they would seek "dammage dealing" weapons to overload HGN DFG.

Vaygr LDS - actie defense, this means the power is drained ever time the laser grid is firing at incoming object (missile or energy projectile). This means Vaygr LDS is very volume sensitive - literally the more missiles/projective it has to intercept the more stress is put to the system to the point the whole system crash and need to reboot. The simples example would be that the same LDS system would be as fast overloaded by 10 capship torpedos as by 10 fighter-to-fighter missiles. From Higaran point of view they would seek both rapid fire/ large volley missiles (MRAMs) and cluster/decoy missiles (Vanilla Torpedo frigate missile) to overload Vay LDS.

- the third idea is the most interesting one.....the Taiidans. They are the masters of both systems... literally for centuries. In HW1 their Defence fighter is pasicaly progenitor of Vaygr LDS technology (it used laser to intercept missiles), while their Defence Field Frigate is progenitor of Higgaran DFG technology.
IMO modern Taiidan warships would field a hybrid DFG/LDS system - ship computer would actively adjust the system output to negate specific shortcomings of specialised tech depending on incoming hostile fire.
Essentially Taiidan defense systems would be able to withstand the amounts of fire impossible to higg DFG and Vay LDS.
Shortcomings?
*) It's not Sajuuk mode ON - like specialised tech this would be still vulnerable to beams and kinetic fire (and that's why Progenitor defense fields/shields are holy grail for 6G Taiidan R&D)
*) The second shortcoming is the biggest one. The whole system is bigger and require bigger computing power therefore without any technological breakthrough it's impossible to fit it into Fighters nor Corvettes. Therefore, because an experience with HW1 Defense Fighter Taiidan strikecrafts use very advance LDS system (they gave the "old/export LDS variant" tech to Vaygr when Higgs started to pump DFG).
 
Ironwatsas
Well, pretty much all starships everywhere save for the most primitive would have some form of Laser Systems to deflect space dust, meteors, and for communications.

The main limiting factor of Laser Defenses is their power output and the time it takes for them to kill one missile, reset, target the next missile, repeat. Plus the power and computer latency drain on the ship using it. Countermeasures include coating the missile in reflective armor, or designing it to fragment when lased, or explode into sub-munitions. This is why LDS is typically paired with Rapid Fire guns and other systems.

Essentially, there wouldn't be too much practical difference between Vaygr, Hiigaran, or Taiidan LDS. The main (gameplay wise) factor being it would be hard to distinguish between them, if the lasers are invisible, and then that's three more things to code.

I would however like to see visible lasers (very thin, appearing for a split second) as a nice visual detail. Even if they'd be invisible to the naked eye, it'd make sense for them to appear in a commander's/pilots' hud so you don't fly into them.

Now the thing with defense fields is that I kind of want to avoid the 'every ship having a shield' like Star Wars or other sci-fi, and keep DFG frigates in play into 4/5G. That makes managing Defense Fields a tactical and strategic imperative. 'Hull Wrap' fields on every ship would be the realm of the Progenitors and T-MAT, and would basically be indestructible.

Most other races would use 'bubble' fields mounted on specialized hulls. In addition to the standard frigate sized model, perhaps have large "fort" shields (A-la Nexus: The Jupiter Incident) mounted on large capital ships or space stations. These would be useful since they are the best (and only, really) defense against very long range weapons like Relativistic Kill Vehicles and Siege Cannons.

As mentioned elsewhere, the DFGs will be of the variety (for gameplay/micromanagement reduction) where you turn them on and they stay on until you manually turn them off or they get shot enough (none of this 30 second timer BS). Of course, they may get some kind of penalty, such as being highly unstealthy, disrupting ECM in their radius, etc, meaning you only want to activate them when you need to to avoid detection.
 
mrWHO
I share your view on "not wanting another SW/Sci-fi shields" and I like the distict PDS lore approach to this matter.

However for practical reason, as a Fleet commander I'd like to know if my ship DFG/LDS is only scratched or on the brink of collapse. If this would effecively make it like generic sci-fi shields then I can live with that.
 
Ironwatsas
If it comes down to it, yeah. We can just do it the same way we did, as an invisible defense field. I just think having visual lasers would be a neat detail, so it's clear that it's actually working.

Perhaps somehow tie the lasers into the defense field so they shut down when the 'field' is depleted, simulating computer overload/EMP/etc. Although you would think that such critical systems would have distributed computing across the ship. Something to think about...
 
mrWHO
Hey Iron I just checked the HW1 Taiidan defence fighter and it works just like you imagined - there is a tiny laser (tha looks like Vaygr pulsar lance) that fire on nearby missiles.

The only problem with it is that unlike defece field it cannot intercept energy projectiles. If we would be able to live with it we have interesting retcon posibility:

HGN - could use the orignal DFG script
Vaygr - could use Tai Defense Fighter script
Taiidan - could use both solution on their ships

If we would find a way to make that DFG energy bar is drained equally to the damage done by the impacting weapon then my initial idea is fully possible.

HGN DFG would be dammage-based buble field, the more devastating weapon the faster the drain.

Vayg LDS would basicaly be the laser defense weapon mounts located on the hull (so some ships could have better protection on some angles) and they would automatically intercept all incoming missiles. f enough missiles are incoming the system will not be able to cope with incoming fire.

Taiidan - have both DFG and LDS, so that LDS intercept missile and if there is too many of them then DFG is the next layer of defence.
 
Ironwatsas
Well the Plasma Lance beam looks a bit cumbersome. I'd like the effects for straight laser weapons to be thinner and more continuous. Sort of like the lasers from Nexus.
 
mrWHO
Yep, same thoughts - the beam should be thinner.
 
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